Great article. Awesome article. I never made another contribution to this IRA, and since it’s been doing nothing but sitting in a money market account all this time, it only changed in value from August, 2005 to September, 2017 for a total increase in value of about $800 ($650 after annual maintenance fees). Just make sure that the company plan offers the kinds of investments you want. Converting all or part of a traditional IRA to a Roth IRA is a fairly straightforward process. Or it doesn’t matter, as I can convert IRA to Roth for any amount, any time and any number of time regardless of tax year? Does this still count as a Roth conversion or does it have to be completed by 12/31/16? Hi Donna – Yes, conversions do need to be completed in the calendar year. You should do a traditional IRA, and then convert it. You can’t withdraw say, $10,000 and declare that it’s all after-tax contributions. Leaving the country doesn’t exempt you from income taxes. ???? My tax man says that his software won’t let me do a Roth conversion and contribute to my Simple plan in the same year without continuous annual penalties. Just be sure that you don’t pay the tax estimate out of the proceeds of the IRA conversion. Need Roth IRA conversion strategies to eliminate your owing taxes on converted assets that fall in value? I’d contact the IRA trustee and see what they recommend. 1) You don’t need to open a new Roth IRA account to do a backdoor IRA. In your article, you include the following quote from a Vanguard advisor giving advice on inherited IRAs. Can I rollover to either a Roth of traditional IRA while employed or do I have to wait until retirement? As long as she has earned income, she can make a contribution up to the amount earned. However, in each of the last two years I converted funds from the traditional IRA to the ROTH, paying taxes on the full conversion amount (that is, I didn’t subtract the “basis” or the 15k in non-deductible contributions that I made over the years from the amount I paid taxes on because I forgot about my past non-deductible contributions). Hi Dave – Based on your description, there are several things going on here. I’m afraid I know the answer…. Basically, I would like to only have one Roth IRA account and not have to open a new Roth IRA account for every back door conversion. I understand the RMD cannot be converted to a Roth. How Identity Theft Destroys Your Credit Score, set this account apart from a traditional IRA. Please consider this situation for me: Okay, so my stock is down and I take it from the traditional IRA and put into Roth IRA in January expecting: A: the tax hit B: the stock to appreciate substantially. @Jim You can, but I don’t see the point in separating the stocks into two different Roth accounts. The IRA will be left with the after tax assets (25K). I have 457 (Deferred Plan) at work, with all the contributions pre-tax. Not even the IRS treatment is buried as pointed out by Gene. Hi Brad, that’s a VERY specific question, and you need to discuss it with a CPA. Thanks for the insightful article. We’re going to have to pay it back at some point, and that likely means higher taxes. In addition, I have I have made some deductible as well as some non deductible contributions to that Traditional IRA. Thanks. Unless otherwise indicated, the use of third party trademarks herein does not imply or indicate any relationship, sponsorship, or endorsement between Good Financial Cents® and the owners of those trademarks. So the question is this: if this is your 1st time ever to do a backdoor Roth, will it be tax-free *even though* you have assets in other traditional IRAs, SEPs, etc.? I started a Roth IRA 2014 and I currently unemployed & pending disability under the age 59 1/2 . Hi Matt – I think you’ll be OK despite the 401k distribution, since it’s after the fact. If I convert the traditional IRA to a Roth, I understand that I won’t need to pay taxes because all contributions were made with after-tax dollars, and further, I think that since there are no capital gains (i.e. It will be different for everyone. If 100% of your income is from retirement, no IRA contribution will be permitted. I’d really prefer the lump sum as I haven’t worked this year, but am thinking that I’ll pay less in taxes by rolling everything over to the RIRA, paying the 10% early withdrawal penalty, and virtually no fed/state income tax because of current employment situation and subsequent tax bracket (lowest possible for Ca and federal). I’m paying premature distribution income + penalty on the $5k distribution. Roth conversions each year from age 65 (retirement) to age 72. Though there are income limits that apply to contributing to a Roth IRA, these income limits do not apply to Roth IRA conversions. A Backdoor Roth IRA can make sense in the same scenarios any Roth IRA conversion makes sense. And no, it doesn’t matter if you file jointly for the year. Hi Jillian – Per IRS regulations you can only make one conversion per year, at least as of the 2015 rules. Can I create two seperate ROTH IRA accounts with my broker, and rollover each different stock into each of the seperate ROTH accounts (one stock on one account, and the other stock in the other account)? One IRA totals $115,000 and the other consists of $225,000. Will the trustee send me a statement of some kind which assumes that ALL the funds contributed to that “Rollover IRA” in 2005 were pre-tax (which is obviously NOT the case.)? Would you comment on the pros (if any) and the cons (if any) of this idea. – 2). In the above conversion, (if done properly) would I be subject to a 10% early withdrawal penalty? If Bentley had gone through with this conversion and didn’t realize the tax liability, he would need to check out the rules on recharacterizing his Roth IRA to get out of those taxes. Total value is $80,000 with pre-tax contributions of $12,000. From what I read here that’s not the cast. Q&A: Can I Make a Prior-Year Roth Conversion This Year? I’m somehow doubting the IRS will consider the separation without applying the pro-rata rules. You can withdraw your contributions to a Roth IRA at any time. My question is if there is a limit to the number of partial Roth conversions in a 12 month period for both my wife and I? Also, keep in mind that when you do move money from a tradition IRA to a Roth, the converted amount will be subject to regular income tax. You wouldn’t be paying taxes now when you’re in a high tax bracket when you make the contribution 2. We have MM Accounts but I have no IRA. Because my traditional IRA account will have been opened for 2 years, will I have to pay a 10% penalty, or only the taxes due? 2) If I close my Traditional IRA account and convert it into the Roth IRA, I understand I have to pay some tax on the portion of after-tax contributions I made according to the pro-rata rule. The major pitfall is that you’ll have to pay regular income tax on the amount of the conversion, but by spreading the conversion out over years, that will minimize it. I have a very siumilar situation, except for 2016 tax year. Correct? Hi Jonathan – You’re getting hung up on a common misunderstanding. I converted all my funds of $20,000 in a traditional IRA to a Roth IRA in January 2018. These are not in any sort of IRA or retirement plan. With a 72t your withdrawals are fixed and based on a pre-calculated formula set by the IRS. In other words, I want to pay Federal & State taxes for converting a per-tax IRA to a Roth using after-tax IRA balances. Remember this if you are planning on converting large IRA balances and have an old 401(k). In my mind, I can’t seem to get past the idea that if I have, say $20k of original contributions, with gains or losses, the value could be maybe $25k or maybe 30K depending on the market, so that is why I thought timing of the conversion may matter. His work is regularly featured in Forbes, Business Insider, Inc.com and Entrepreneur. Great article!! In prior years Ive done $20k roth conversions. If one stock goes up significantly and one stock goes down significantly, and if they are in seperate ROTH IRA accounts (converted from a single traditional IRA account in kind), you can recharacterize the stock/account that has gone down significnalty back into the traditional IRA account so that you are not paying taxes on money you no longer have. Thanks for a great white paper on conversions. I expect the AGI to be above $200K for 2016 also. Now if you have other IRA accounts that do have pre-tax contributions, you will owe tax. I have a curveball question for you. That determines the amount converted, not the amount at the beginning of the year, or as of some other date. If you take the money directly, your employer (or the plan trustee) should withhold 20% from the amount distributed. To clarify – the 10% penalty would only apply to the portion of the traditional IRA that is not rolled to the Roth, correct? Invested $5500 non-deductible, then shortly converted to R-IRA But then later a former employer terminated their T-401K plan, so rolled it over into the T-IRA. Great article. Hi Chris – Yes and no. Thinking about converting your retirement account to a Roth IRA? But then, not too long after saying that, you say, ‘No matter how the transfer is accomplished, the funds coming out of your traditional IRA will be subject to regular income tax in the year that it occurs. There’s no dollar limit on conversions Terry so you should be OK. However, you must first take your annual required minimum distribution (RMD) from your traditional IRA for the year before doing the rollover. In fact, most don’t. I have been told by a couple of financial adviser that you can not convert any 401 or Ira dollars to a Roth if you do not have an earned income. You simply set up a Roth IRA account with the trustee who is holding your traditional IRA, and direct them to move the money from the traditional IRA into your Roth IRA account. 2) The conversion is added to your regular taxable income, so yes it will increase your taxes. Hi Jeff, If I take a distribution from a traditional IRA up to the amount I contributed with after tax dollars is there any tax on that if I am over 65 yrs but under 70 yrs? Specifically, as someone shooting for early retirement, I’m wondering whether I can use my 401(k) in place of a non-tax-sheltered brokerage account. I have a work-sponsored (401K) Retirement plan with traditional & Roth can I transfer funds from my traditional (401k) plan into my Roth (401k) plan and not be liable to pay the taxes on same trustee transfer at the same Institution. There are several ways that a Roth conversion benefits people regardless of their filing or marriage status. Am I further correct in assuming that I will not have to pay any penalty because it will be converted into a Roth IRA rather than simply being liquidated and transferred to me directly? Great article. Since the contribution to the traditional IRA is made with after tax dollars, the conversion shouldn’t result in a tax. Somehow I don’t think it will involve getting a refund on the taxes you paid on the Roth contributions. This will be my first IRA so I am new to this. For example, for your conversion to a Roth IRA in 2013, you have until October 15, 2014, to recharacterize. I’m not aware of any limitations in regard to a Roth conversion when you have a SIMPLE plan. I know the tax is paid first. and (2) Is there a way to get tax forms for contributions made in the current year but applied to the prior year? Q.Dan, I am 64 and my wife is 63.Both are retired. I would like to convert both the dividends and the shares to a Roth IRA, as I feel that the longer it is in a traditional IRA the larger the tax bite will be when I am forced to take RMDs in approximately 6 years from now. The only one who can answer a question like this definitively is someone who has intimate knowledge of your finances. Thanks for this article and your time answering questions. Retirement Accounts (IRA, 401k, etc. I just opened a tradition IRA and then said I can convert that to a Roth with only my earnings being taxes since the income was already taxed. Hi Louise – If I understand this interpretation correctly, you’ll have to take an RMD on the traditional IRA, but the balance of the amount transferred can be converted. just an idea to simplify the annual conversion…. Hi Dale – I probably could have worded that section better! They also gave me a 2014 5498 IRA Contribution for 11,000. However, any nondeductible contributions that you made to your traditional IRA will not be taxable, since they never had the benefit of tax deferral. Under a new rule in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, you can no longer “recharacterize” or undo a Roth conversion. Hi Larry – The Roth IRA transfers to your wife. converting (selling) at a loss), I think I won’t owe taxes there either, but do you know if this the case? That’s true Joel. These folks wish they had … Why would you want to re-characterize the money at all? That means that if you withdraw funds from the Roth you’ll have to pay the 10% penalty tax, on top of the ordinary income tax due on the conversion. Hi Jeff, Quick question. Here’s where the IRS pro-rata rule applies. Does the amount of that conversion transfer increase my income on my taxes? For this reason, you might want to spread the conversion out over several years, especially to avoid being pushed up into a higher tax bracket. Hi Jonathan – Your IRA and your wife’s IRA are separate accounts. Will there be tax implications if both happen in the same tax year? You might want to ask your CPA about it. Jeff – In May 2015 my wife and I each made $6,500 non-deductible contributions to traditional IRAs and and then converted them to ROTH IRAs in June 2015. Thank you for the reply Jeff. Next Steps… A partial Roth conversion is just one strategy I can offer to help you maximize how you use your money. This is not only the easiest way to work the transfer, but it also virtually eliminates the possibility that the funds from your traditional IRA account will become taxable.’. I’ve read that (also you mention it in your FAQ section): “Age 59 and under. – For 2017 tax year I anticipate I will not be eligible to contribute to Roth IRA. In the example above, the total amount of retirement capital used for the Roth IRA conversion ladder is $400,000. If we do this in 2017 and again in 2018 and so forth, can we use the same IRA accounts for contribution and conversion? Thank you, in advance, for any information you may give. I am stopping my 403(b) contributions in January and opening a separate Roth IRA that will be outside of my employer. To Roth or not to Roth -- that is the question. For those contemplating Roth conversions, who are in the 22% or higher brackets and receive Medicare Part B, C and/or D, consideration should be give to premium increases incurred by higher income beneficiaries. Hi Lee – First of all, I don’t think you have to report what are literally pennies of income. It will help, due to the 5 year rule on distributions. I am 52.5 years old with a traditional pre-tax IRA of approx 310k. Check with your divorce attorney. Some CPAs are saying that the one IRA rollover per year rule doesn’t apply to Roth conversions. Hi Mettur – You can do a Roth conversion at any age, and since you lost your job your income tax liability will be low. You can take direct delivery of the funds from your traditional IRA (check made payable to you personally), and then roll them over into a Roth IRA account, but you must do so within 60 days of the distribution. Just seeing this video for the first time today. She is planning to open a solo 401K and rollover the pre-tax assets from her IRA to the solo 401K. I have used it to roll over funds from 401K from my previous employer. We also have a high deductible health plan with an HSA. Since the conversion is from a pre-tax IRA that should keep the taxes to a minimum. I do not want to keep this newly opened traditional IRA (do not want to keep track many accounts ). If they were, the bank should be able to help you with the Roth conversion, including calculation of the tax you’ll owe for doing so. I want to convert $100,000 of a Traditional IRA to a Roth IRA in 2017. There shouldn’t be a problem rolling the 401k over into a traditional IRA. What do you suggest? Unless I’m missing something! If I make non-deductible contributions in the maximum amount of $5,500 to a traditional IRA, can I make the backdoor conversion to an existing (key point here) Roth IRA? If I currently have $80K deductible IRA, and open another non deductible IRA of $5500 on April 8, 2015 leaving everything cash. As a matter of fact, if a US citizen leaves the country, they have to leave their Roth and IRA behind (the money isn’t lost, it’s just that you can’t roll it over to your local Chinese bank). By leaving it in the 401(k), it will minimize your tax burden. But if you do an indirect transfer (money first goes to you personally, then you transfer it to the Roth trustee within 60 days) the first IRA trustee may withhold 10% or more of the amount transferred. I recently learned that I was being laid off, and will recieve a lump sum severance of $50k, which I will rollover to an IRA. Or can I also convert an external, traditional,, non delectable IRA to a Roth. My wife has only a Roth IRA. Since the contributions weren’t tax deductible, there will be no tax to pay on them when you roll them over into the Roth IRA. That looks to be the way you’re heading. That means you’ll be in a relatively high tax bracket in retirement. When you convert from a traditional IRA to a Roth, it’s regarded as a distribution from your traditional IRA. What I haven’t been able to find an answer to is this question: Does the IRS allow a contribution to an existing Roth IRA in the same year in which we’d be doing a Roth conversion? Hi Ruth – You don’t have the option to include it in 2015, that cutoff was December 31. Am I allowed to make yearly contributions to a SEP IRA, roll it all over into my employer 401k yearly, and continue to make yearly $5500 conversions to my roth IRA without any penalties? So I did the Roth Conversion this year on an IRA I opened in 2015 but realized after I was just past the income limit for a traditional IRA. And no I don’t see a problem with reporting gains. Traditional IRAs have lower limits that apply only if you’re covered by an employer pension. Very insightful! Just remember that once you do, you won’t be able to make withdrawals until you reach age 59.5, otherwise you will be subject to tax on the earnings on the account, as well as a 10% early withdrawal penalty. I have Deductible and Non-Deductible funds in the Trad. Just so I’m clear…I funded a 2015 Traditional IRA in March 2016 and immediately converted it to a Roth IRA. Would it be better to start a separate traditional IRA and let the Roth sit? Hi great article can you please answer a couple of questions. However, yes, the 100k does have to be included in your AGI on form 1040. Where in the IRS Code or Publications can I find this provision? You will have to pay tax on any earnings on the non-deductible portion. This is even easier than a trustee-to-trustee transfer because the money stays within the same institution. Hi Jeff — Do 401(k) rollovers or Traditional IRA conversions get considered as “contributions” once they become a Roth IRA account? This article covered exactly what I was interested in learning. Wouldn’t the same apply to a Traditional IRA that holds after-tax contributions? I hold a Roth IRA and am looking to convert just this year’s (2016 tax year) contribution to a Traditional IRA (both with the same firm). However, there is no place (that I can tell) to list our conversion from Traditional IRA to Roth IRA. As I understand the rules, the first dollars moved from the IRA are counted toward the RMD. How do I calculate the total Non-Roth IRA balance? My presumption is the income/conversion should all be reported in 2017, correct? This IRA resides with Mutual Fund Company A. b) I opened a 2nd Traditional IRA in Oct. 2017 and fully funded it with $6500 (I am over age 50), also in non deductible funds. Post-Retirement Roth Conversion. There are probably special provisions that will affect the outcome one way or another. If you do both in the same year, the converted balance will apply to the pro-rata calculation as well. Hi Brett – No. Hi Jeff, Very helpful article. Maybe you could make four quarterly estimates, then make the conversion in the forth quarter, so you’ll be ahead of liability? Even though you file jointly, retirement plans are handled on an individual basis. This all seems like a time-consuming petty loophole that the IRS has in place. I have a similar question as well. I have a defined benefit plan, and expect to retire with $60,000 pension. Even if they do, you might have an issue with the breakout between the tax-deductible and non-tax-deductible contributions. (avoiding A) D: Thank you. While Roth IRAs grow tax-free and withdrawals We are in our 20’s and converted a 401(k) from a previous employer into a Roth IRA in 2016. I’m thinking it would be when I file taxes since the notice indicated the entire amount would roll over to RIRA untaxed. A few points, 1. If the answer is at the end of the tax year (regardless when i convert during the year), then i will have to wait one year before i convert 401K into new IRA # 2 as i don’t want to mix the two basis pools. Either way it will all come “out in the wash” by the end of the year. Most people are in a lower tax bracket during retirement than they were when they were working. It may be beneficial to me to convert the funds in 2017 if I can. In order to do it, you have to reverse the conversion as if it never happened. (I’d like to convert and withdraw asap if it helps with taxes). You can’t do a Roth conversion in 2016 for 2015, so it will have to be effective for 2016. That’s true George, and it’s good for us all, wouldn’t you agree? © 2021 Good Financial Cents®. I needed a small amount of money to include in the down payment of my house, so, as instructed by the investment company holding this Roth IRA (the Trustee? However you do not have to pay the 10% early withdrawal penalty on the amount of the conversion. Is that same percentage of ‘original contributions’ and ‘gains’ – used to determine how much of that withdrawal is declared as income on my taxes for the withdrawal year? Hi John – According to this article Distributions After a Roth IRA Conversion, you should be OK to take the withdrawal without incurring either regular income tax (because it was paid at conversion) or the penalty (because the purpose of the withdrawal is an accepted exemption). I initiated an IRA to Roth conversion with my broker in 2016. I hadn’t converted these to a rollover tradtional IRA, but just want to make sure they aren’t in the denominator of the prorata calculation. Thanks! My old 401k has 120k and about 16k of that in Roth 401k. If the current traditional IRA/401K balances are $1.7M, do you think this is a prudent approach to try to do maybe half in conversions over the next 8 years and then look to see about the other half when my wife stops working at circa 57? If so, the amount will be the actual dollar amount of the contributions. Or does the backdoor Roth IRA have to create a new Roth account? My AGI is over the maximum contribution limits for a Roth IRA 2. I have a question about the pro-rata rule for married couples. Therefore, if you were to make a … So is the correct sequence to make my 2017 non-deductible contribution to my existing IRA, then trigger the rollover to a Roth, rolling over both the existing deductible balance of $X plus my non-deductible contribution of $Y from 2017? Hi Jeff, as a married couple and my spouse having earned income of $6500 , could my spouse make a tax deductible contribution (we are within the income limits guidelines ) to an existing contributory IRA and also make a $6500 conversion to a Roth IRA from that same contributory account in the same year 2016? That kind of transfer eliminates taxes that might result from a delayed transfer (beyond 60 days) or one that incurs withholding, which itself could result in a tax on the withholding amount itself. My IRA totals are about 20% higher than my wife’s. I saw the following mention of that in another article and it makes no sense, but not sure I didn’t miss something. The 401k should be taxable on conversion since it was tax deferred in the accumulation phase. If you’re closing out your SEP and converting it to a Roth IRA, what will be left to withdraw from the SEP? I thought I read somewhere conversions had to be done in the calendar year of the contribution. Possible workaround actions:: 1) My workplace 401K does allow for a reverse roll over of my Rollover IRA and Roth IRA. Unless you file separately, then you’ll have to consult with a CPA. As to opening a new Roth for each conversion, do that if it makes the process easier for you to understand. I am thinking of contributing $6500 to a NONDEDUCTIBLE IRA for 2014 and then converting that amount to a ROTH IRA immediately. If not, roll it over to a traditional IRA. I believe that all my contributions to the 403(b) have been pre-tax, so it should all be taxable when I convert if I have to move all at once. What is the best way to avoid or minimize the tax? I have a healthy 401K. 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